Return-Path: <sentto-279987-1315-992152217-fc=all.net@returns.onelist.com> Delivered-To: fc@all.net Received: from 204.181.12.215 by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.1.0) for fc@localhost (single-drop); Sat, 09 Jun 2001 22:51:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 14464 invoked by uid 510); 10 Jun 2001 04:50:56 -0000 Received: from ci.egroups.com (64.211.240.235) by 204.181.12.215 with SMTP; 10 Jun 2001 04:50:56 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-279987-1315-992152217-fc=all.net@returns.onelist.com Received: from [10.1.4.55] by ci.egroups.com with NNFMP; 10 Jun 2001 05:50:17 -0000 X-Sender: fastflyer28@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: iwar@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 10 Jun 2001 05:50:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 71550 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2001 05:50:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 10 Jun 2001 05:50:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web14502.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.224.65) by mta3 with SMTP; 10 Jun 2001 05:50:17 -0000 Message-ID: <20010610055017.85405.qmail@web14502.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [12.78.117.44] by web14502.mail.yahoo.com; Sat, 09 Jun 2001 22:50:17 PDT To: iwar@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20010609061730.57363.qmail@web14501.mail.yahoo.com> From: "c.b r" <fastflyer28@yahoo.com> Mailing-List: list iwar@yahoogroups.com; contact iwar-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list iwar@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:iwar-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com> Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 22:50:17 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: iwar@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [iwar] Re: thought activation Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tony: I understand the matter of biometrics is a serious problem and devices that are present generation are clearly far from perfect. This leaves us all in a bad position, and it is hard to regain possession of your fingerprints, or voice as you had questioned. All I was trying to do was extend your problem out to a dimension where the technology to steal even you personal "image" is available. I had no intention of not answering your question of biometrics-AIAA is very interested in that matter at present-and I only hoped that theft of a person voice, or image would be considered. Check the AIAA website on biometrics.Also check with OPSEC. --- "c.b r" <fastflyer28@yahoo.com> wrote: > OK Tony : While I may be new to this list, I am not > to > the matter of morphing you onto TV and having seen > voices faked-in this case -for purposes of the > motion > pix industry. What you really need to worry about > is > being taken hostage and then see yourself on the > Beijing Chinese TV station denouncing this > government, > or giving away TS CODE info that would aid 3rd world > nations in the CBRN terrorism game, or WMD wanna > haves. > > If you have seen the movie "Forest Gump", you have > already seen Tom Hanks supposidly having chats with > President Kennedy and Nixon-very convincing > stuff-that > was done by a friend who worked at the time for > Industrial Lights and Magic. Actually, he ran their > cgi special effects unit. He is now with SKG > Dreamworks and wrote a paper with a law professor > from > Harvard after he did his work on "Gump" that was > simply a one voice in the wilderness on a problem > that > is going to become a potential nightmare: The Abuse > of > Morphing technology by either nations, or > sub-national > actors to spread very convincing disinfirmation. > Many > more discussions on the entire matter of protection > of identity are to come.The only 100% ID is your DNA > and while something that has begun to free people > unjustly convicted of a crime they never committed, > it > is-at present-the only exacting differentiator. > > You, or someone else in this group from the Labs, or > some policy type like myself could end up on the > only > TV station in in Nation Z giving away secrets, or > disinforming the American public that we are in a > crisis and need to negotiate away.....take your pick > and you are a "guest" of the nation who you are > being > not so nicely pursuaded to speak for. > > Want to make this easier, simply morph your head on > someone elses body and let the voice techs do their > magic. Worse case-BLACKMAIL-you are approached and > told that unless you give whoever the info they > want, > you become the anchor on the Iraqui 6pm news spewing > out disinformation for hours on end. > > Stealing identities is frightening enough, but > forcing > a hostige with classified knowledge to make a major > TV > broadcast threatening the US, and you know about our > weapons capibility-that should scare the hell out of > you. We are way past identity theft, now. If you > grab the right person who has a high enough TV-Q > rating, then even sub-national actors with limited > means and TV through a third party nation who they > have befriended-an enemy of the US-and you have a > problem with profoundly nasty implications on your > hands. How about a staged "war crime" with video of > US > troops shooting and "killing" innocent citizens. > When > a director says CUT, they all stand up and remove > the > "wounds" created by makeup artists playing for the > wrong nation. Instant war crime-just add no death > and > some good video tape. Video is very convincing > stuff.Dump the tape on the net with a fake human > rights abuse web site name,and as they say, one > picture is worth a thousand words. > > I recognize that I have throw out several possible > scenarios that can be done with technology that > already exists. However, they all fall loosly into > the arena of the theft of person for use by ill > intentioned folks. > > HAVE A NICE WEEKEND! > > > So, Tony-how are you going to defend against either > a > politico, or well known expert putting out > disinformation on TV-against their will- and how do > will you correct the situation, before nations who > actually believe your broadcast declair war? > > > > Note-my spell checker is a mess. If I use it, you > will > have html tags all over this. Spello's, I do > appologize for > > --- Beth Russell sent this to up the ante on Tonys > question. Find a technically and politically > feasible > answer and you are one step closer to the real > world. > > This is from Tony:> > I wanted the list to think these problems > over,)Biometrics? How about kidnapping the head of > one > of the LABS for the above purposes, or the > Presidents > Science Advisor? > > > Tony injured digit, or sore throat aside, how > quickly > could the US do a convincing job of refuting the > Science Advisor, to the point where Joe and Jane Q. > "Six-Pack" are no longer alarmed by these actions? > and > of course I do know about both conventional and nuke > > order of batle matters including PAL > authorization.That is, at least as it stands today. > Otherwise, we all must ask "DR Strangerum"(SECDEF > Rumsfeld as commented on by the sunday NYT) at the > pentagon what he might do other than look for the > cold > war. Consider it an intellectual exercise. > beth russell > > THIS INFORMATION IS NOT FOR ATRIBUTION AND FOR USE > ONLY BY INDIVIDUALS PARTY TO THE > IWAR@YAHOOGROUPS.COM. > ------------------------------------------------------ > > > > At 08:34 AM 6/8/01 -0400, > > This is from Tony at LLNL. > > > >But this is related to a serious concern I have > > about biometrics. Let me > > >admit from the outset that this may be the result > > of a lack of understanding > > >of the technology on my part. How do biometric > > devices deal with normal > > >deviations in what they sense and act on? For > > instance, how would something > > >that reads a fingerprint work if I've cut or > burned > > a finger while cooking > > >the previous night? Or in the case of voice > > activation, how does it work if > > >one has a sore throat one day? > > > > Not very well, I suppose. Improved techniques > > employ all sorts of fuzzy > > and statistical measures to produce "templates" > that > > can be reliably > > matched, despite *some* variations in a read. > > > > My issue with biometrics is that, in the zealous > > desire to find more > > definitive forms of attribution, it is often > > considered the "final > > word". I have wondered, if biometrics were to > > become commonplace, whether > > it will become a criminal offense to publish your > > biometric data in public > > fora. "Here are the holographic images of my > > fingerprints, my retinal > > scans, and my skin conductivity measurements. Go > > ahead and use them to > > impersonate me if you like." Would this help to > > enable a repudiation > > defense? "It wasn't me. Anyone could have placed > > my prints there." > > > > The problem with biometrics is that they cannot be > > "revoked" if > > compromised. If someone steals my fingerprints, I > > cannot (yet!) get a new > > set of fingers. > > > > ___tony___ > > > > > > Tony Bartoletti 925-422-3881 <azb@llnl.gov> > > Information Operations, Warfare and Assurance > Center > > Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory > > Livermore, CA 94551-9900 > > > > > === message truncated === __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------ http://all.net/ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.2 : 2001-06-30 21:44:16 PDT