RE: [iwar] Chinese IW-one more thought

From: e.r. (fastflyer28@yahoo.com)
Date: 2001-07-31 18:37:32

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To: iwar@yahoogroups.com
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From: "e.r." <fastflyer28@yahoo.com>
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Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 18:37:32 -0700 (PDT)
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Subject: RE: [iwar] Chinese IW-one more thought
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Leo, the Chinese have always liked quantity over quality.  For ex, they
might train their DO agents a total of two weeks for one mission.  That
would make me feel too replaceable.  The low skill level of their human
ops is well documented. They have gotten computer a bit better-with out
help in training chinese "students".  I am, however, still unconvienced
that their IWAR crew is anything more than marginal quality at best.
Does notpreclude then from going high quantity to solve their problem
and it becomes our problem as we are few in number with sorry funding.
--- "e.r." <fastflyer28@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I see your point, but disagree with your evaluation of China.  They
> work on a much lower tech and increased labor intensiveness to make
> up
> for their lack of quality.  Quality has never been their strong suit.
> Using labor as their value added is their game.
> --- "Leo, Ross" <Ross.Leo@csoconline.com> wrote:
> > I agree completely with your point.  Their advantage is augmented,
> as
> > you
> > suggest, by several factors.  One is the sheer numbers of potential
> > I-warriors at their disposal.  Second is their ability to put
> > technology in
> > each of these myriad I-warriors' hands to prosecute their plan of
> > campaign.
> > Third, and most important, is the active endorsement of their
> > government in
> > supporting this effort.  Add to this the seeming infinite patience
> > they can
> > exercise as they proceed.
> > 
> > This scenario compares favourably to the USA/NATO balance of
> airpower
> > to
> > that of the former USSR - we chose the technological route, whereas
> > the
> > Soviets went with numbers.  Our planes may be able to knock out 6
> of
> > theirs,
> > but that doesn't matter if they put up 7 or more to each one of
> ours.
> > Ultimately they would still be flying and we would not.  With the
> > Chinese
> > (and possibly others), this is definitely a numbers game.  In this
> > case,
> > however, their numbers have the same technology we have.
> > 
> > Ross A. Leo, CISSP, CBCP
> > Director, IT Security Engineering
> >  
> > "Cry havoc! And let slip the dogs of war."  Wm. Shakespeare
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: e.r. [mailto:fastflyer28@yahoo.com]
> > Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 22:13
> > To: iwar@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: RE: [iwar] Chinese IW-one more thought
> > 
> > 
> > yes, leo, but a powerfully focused and large computer network
> > primarily
> > out of bejing is what makes them a problem.  Unlike western
> > intelligence agencies who send one highly skilled operator out to
> do
> > a
> > job, the Chinese are very labor intensive and car no if 5 of 6
> > Iwarriors fail.  If the 6th, al in seperate cells succeeds, then
> they
> > have won the day.
> > --- "Leo, Ross" <Ross.Leo@csoconline.com> wrote:
> > > I must agree with Fred.   A lack of substantial economic
> resources
> > > simply
> > > creates the "Mother of Invention" for these folks.  With no large
> > > state
> > > subsidies, they must get creative in their approach, that's all. 
> > > State
> > > endorsement is free (with the non-monetary reward of a "Get out
> of
> > > Jail Fee"
> > > card for example).  Those who wage IWAR have the same advantages
> of
> > > the
> > > stereotypical terrorist - small size, wide dispersement, ability
> to
> > > disappear into a crowd (or be invisible in the first place), and
> > the
> > > appearance of great mobility.  Finding them, in any sense, is far
> > > more
> > > difficult than their hiding from us.  They have a distinct
> > advantage
> > > over us
> > > in this way, and the sad fact is we (the US) have provided them
> > with
> > > most of
> > > the tools they are now using against us.
> > >  
> > > Ross A. Leo
> > > Ross A. Leo, CISSP, CBCP
> > > Director, IT Security Engineering
> > >     
> > > "Cry havoc! And let slip the dogs of war."  Wm. Shakespeare
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Fred Cohen [ mailto:fc@all.net <mailto:fc@all.net> ]
> > > Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 07:59
> > > To: iwar@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: Re: [iwar] Chinese IW-one more thought
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Per the message sent by e.r.:
> > > 
> > > ...
> > > >  Our country needs to learn that the short term notion of why
> > using
> > > the
> > > > policy  that "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" never lasts
> and
> > > > eventually comes back in our face.  While Russia is still a
> > > problem, it
> > > > economic fraility limits what they can do in a strategic sense
> in
> > > the
> > > > IWAR world.
> > > 
> > > To the contrary - it is exactly why they will use the asymetric
> > > advantage of the attacker today in the IWAR world.  Lower cost
> and
> > > risk
> > > for higher potential gain - plus they have a lot of skill here.
> > > 
> > > FC
> > > --
> > > Fred Cohen at Sandia National Laboratories at tel:925-294-2087
> > > fax:925-294-1225
> > >   Fred Cohen & Associates: http://all.net <http://all.net>  -
> > > fc@all.net -
> > > tel/fax:925-454-0171
> > >       Fred Cohen - Practitioner in Residence - The University of
> > New
> > > Haven
> > >    This communication is confidential to the parties it is
> intended
> > > to
> > > serve.
> > >         PGP keys: https://all.net/pgpkeys.html
> > > <https://all.net/pgpkeys.html>  - Have a great day!!!
> > > 
> > > 
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> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > 
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> 
> 
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Next message: e.r.: "RE: [iwar] How good is missile defense system?"
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