Return-Path: <sentto-279987-2052-1000872587-fc=all.net@returns.onelist.com> Delivered-To: fc@all.net Received: from 204.181.12.215 by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.1.0) for fc@localhost (single-drop); Tue, 18 Sep 2001 21:11:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 29073 invoked by uid 510); 19 Sep 2001 04:10:22 -0000 Received: from n23.groups.yahoo.com (216.115.96.73) by 204.181.12.215 with SMTP; 19 Sep 2001 04:10:22 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-279987-2052-1000872587-fc=all.net@returns.onelist.com Received: from [10.1.1.220] by ck.egroups.com with NNFMP; 19 Sep 2001 04:09:56 -0000 X-Sender: fc@big.all.net X-Apparently-To: iwar@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_2); 19 Sep 2001 04:09:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 32382 invoked from network); 19 Sep 2001 04:09:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by 10.1.1.220 with QMQP; 19 Sep 2001 04:09:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO big.all.net) (65.0.156.78) by mta1 with SMTP; 19 Sep 2001 04:09:55 -0000 Received: (from fc@localhost) by big.all.net (8.9.3/8.7.3) id VAA18738 for iwar@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 18 Sep 2001 21:09:55 -0700 Message-Id: <200109190409.VAA18738@big.all.net> To: iwar@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <000001c140b8$4915a540$6301a8c0@Ozair> from "Mohammad Ozair Rasheed" at Sep 19, 2001 08:07:55 AM Organization: I'm not allowed to say X-Mailer: don't even ask X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL1] From: Fred Cohen <fc@all.net> Mailing-List: list iwar@yahoogroups.com; contact iwar-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list iwar@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:iwar-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com> Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 21:09:54 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: iwar@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [iwar] [fc:SEPTEMBER.11,.2001:.TEN.WAYS.... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit [FC - One of the things I really like about this forum is the different perspectives we get here. I add my slight comments to Ozair's.] Per the message sent by Mohammad Ozair Rasheed: > 1. This is not a war between the West and Islam but between the West and > a large segment of the Islamic world, the fundamentalist minority. For ... > > [Ozair] ... How can the large segment of Islamic world be > > a minority? Essentially he is inciting hatred against Islam. [FC - I think we are talking about a small minority of wealthy and powerful people who are opressing their people and using a false vision of Islam to insight others to violence in order to gain/retain their power and lifestyle.] > 2. While Arab leaders and our own leaders are right to admonish us to > avoid confusing Muslims with terrorists, the fact is there are no known > cases of contemporary mass terrorism in the name of Judaism, ... > > [Ozair] I'd like to contradict the writer here. There are cases in the > > history whereby the Judaism and Christianity participated in the mass > > terrorism, crusades for one was the case in Christian History, Conquest > > of Andalusia was another. On contemporary level, the Israeli atrocities > > against Palestinians, the Serbian mass atrocities/terror mongering > > against Bosnia. With the single exception of the "Israeli atrocities against Palestinians", I agree stongly with Ozair here. In that one case it is not as clear to me as to Ozair and I would ask him to be specific in his assertions. I know that both sides of the Israeili/Palestinain conflict bear some responsibility for it, and nobody that I know of disclaims the assertion that Palestinians have attacked and killed civilians with no purpose other than information warfare (read terror), but I am unaware of and incidents where the Israeli government has sponsored such acts against the Palestinian population. At the same time, just as the Cast system in India has persisted for a long time, form of cast system has existed in Israel with Palestinians treated poorly compared to other groups. Ozair: I welcome your views and specific facts in this regard. > 6. President Bush has described the terrorist attack and its aftermath > as "a different kind" of war. How "different" is it? To begin with, it ... > [Ozair] I am not sure if the perspective is right over here, no doubt > terrorism is the worst kind of warfare, however, you have to realize > that even countries also take part in terrorism, namely the incidents > between Palestinians and Israelis, Russia and Chechnya. My personal view is that we should differentiate organized and intentional killing of non-combatants for the purpose of terror from other forms of crimes here. The US has many individuals who have killed others - example the killing of Muslums in the US in the last week - and I think we are all appauled by this and would call it murder. But we would not call it terrorism unless the leaders of a group supported it. I would call the acts of the Klu Klux Klan in the 1960s terrorism, and perhaps the McVeigh case (because he was acting as a loosely knit member of a larger group), but not the Boston Strangler or other similar serial killers. Again I want to solicit comments from Ozair and the rest of the iwar forum members. FC --This communication is confidential to the parties it is intended to serve-- Fred Cohen Fred Cohen & Associates.........tel/fax:925-454-0171 fc@all.net The University of New Haven.....http://www.unhca.com/ http://all.net/ Sandia National Laboratories....tel:925-294-2087 ------------------ http://all.net/ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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