[iwar] [fc:Full.Text.Interview.With.Leading.Palestinian.Intellectual.Dr..Haider]

From: Fred Cohen (fc@all.net)
Date: 2001-09-30 15:51:24
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Full Text Interview With Leading Palestinian Intellectual Dr. Haider
                            Abdel-Shafi*
                     By Ramzy Baroud, ME Digest
                 September 28, 2001 - 06:00:07 AM EDT

[Note: Dr.  Abdel-Shafi when leading the Palestinian delegation to the
Washington talks admitted that the PA would not allow Israeli assistance
to the squalid conditions in refugee camps as they wanted to keeps the
camps intact for publicity reasons.]

Dr.  Haider Abdel-Shafi* was interviewed on the one year anniversary of
the Al Aqsa Intifada. 

BAROUD: What message has the Palestinian uprising (Intifada) tried to
convey in its first year?

Dr.  ABDEL-SHAFI: The Intifada which started spontaneously, has the
evident objective of making it plain that the ongoing negotiation
process is valueless, is of no consequence.  Almost 10 years of
negotiations without achieving any real progress and Israel has been
exploiting the negotiation table to continue its strategy of acquiring
territory and establishing structures on that territory. 

So the message of the Intifada was that the negotiation process is of no
avail, that we should suspend our participation. 

The second message is that we will not abandon our rights, we will fight
for our rights, but of course we will realize our legitimate rights of
self determination.  The declared position of the Palestinian side is
that we accept the state within the borders of 1967, with Jerusalem as
capital, and the implementation of resolution 194 pertaining to the
rights of refugees. 

This is our ultimate objective. 

In regards to the current situation, what should have taken place is
that the Palestinian leadership should have taken it upon itself to
organize the Intifada, rather than leave it in its spontaneity, in its
lack of order.  It should have put it into order. 

It should have responded realistically to the message of the Intifada. 

But the leadership did not do this, so it almost looks as though the
leadership has no connection with the Intifada. 

The Intifada is going on its own, in its spontaneous character, and the
Authority is thinking of something else.  That's where the discord has
been.  Now myself and others were calling for the necessity of a
leadership of National Unity, that is to say, a leadership composed of
all the political forces on the scene, and that this coalition of forces
will realize its resolutions on a democratic basis.  This I feel is the
best way to deal with the Intifada. 

BAROUD: Wouldn't a Palestinian government with organizations like
Islamic Jihad and Hamas involved mean the end of Oslo as far as Israel
is concerned? Is the Palestinian Authority ready to abandon Oslo?

Dr.  ABDEL-SHAFI: No, you see Oslo has already discredited itself, and
this is the basic message of the Intifada; that these negotiations which
have been taking place on the basis of Oslo, are of no avail, because
the agreement did not address the settlement issue. 

From the beginning when we started negotiations in Washington, we
insisted that Israel should stop the settlement process, because it is a
contradiction with the terms of reference.  When Israel refused to stop,
and the American sponsor did not compel Israel to abide by the terms of
reference, the negotiation process then lost its credibility. 

That's why I was calling for suspension of our participation, to decide
how we deal with this situation.  Of course we didn't know that there
were secret negotiations going on in Oslo.  One drawback about Oslo is
that it did not address the settlement issue, in spite of the fact that
it was the cause of the impasse in the Washington negotiations that
lasted for 20 months.  So the matter is so clear, so obvious.  That's
why after negotiations started, in the context of this, Israel exploited
it to activate its settlement policies.  There is also a new violation,
the new bypass roads which destroyed the demographic continuity of the
Arab environment, and turned our environment into bantustans. 

BAROUD: Staying on the topic of national unity, If the PA accepts a
national unity government, there will be severe pressure from Israel and
the US and perhaps from other countries to break alliances with
movements that the west perceives as hostile.  How can the PA stand the
pressure?

Dr.  ABDEL-SHAFI: You see it is our right; it is not the business of the
US nor of the European community how we manage our own affairs, to
establish a national unity authority is our private concern.  Here I
must say that much of what has been going on with the Intifada is not to
our benefit.  We must make it very clear to the world that we are
engaged in defending our rights and that we are not just out to "kill
Jews". 

We must make it clear that we are in the process of defending
Palestinians' legitimate rights.  So my suggestion is that the Authority
should accept a national unity government. 

I also think we should refrain from fighting except fighting Israeli
settlement activity, that's where we should concentrate our fighting,
and we should fight with all the means we have. 

Also we should fight wherever Israel wants to demolish homes and destroy
farms and so on, to make it very plain that we are engaging in a
defensive activity, at least to make it clear for the world that we are
defending Palestinian rights. 

BAROUD: Would the Palestinian leadership be prepared to withstand
further Israeli aggressions?

Dr.  ABDEL-SHAFI: It will be very difficult for Israel to use its heavy
military power against us with the world looking on, while we are on the
defensive. 

So at least we could stop the settlement activity, this is the main
strategy of Zionism, and if we attain this, it is a big step forward,
because like I said, Israel exploited the negotiating process to
activate its settlement activity and that makes things worse.  If we
attain this then we should not sit still, we should continue to find the
ways and means of realizing our national objectives, but it must go step
by step. 

BAROUD: If the Palestinian Authority is persuaded to embrace national
unity, should other parties that would be part of that coalition be
expected to compromise in any way?

Dr.  ABDEL-SHAFI: Surely, that's the means of the national unity
government, the basic decisions about what to do should be the
objectives of this national unity government, then every party should
abide by these decisions.  It is to unify, "what we do, how do we
address the Intifada and its problems".  Certainly that is exactly why
we want the national unity.  Organizations like Hamas must accept the
idea of the national unity authority, where everyone should abide by the
decisions of this authority where resolutions will be determined on a
democratic basis. 

BAROUD: In conclusion, could you outline the PA's role during the first
year of the Intifada?

Dr.  ABDEL-SHAFI: The role of the authority has been very bad, very bad. 
I have been very articulate about criticizing the role of the PA.  The
authority did not prevail to take action to end this spontaneity of the
Intifada, and many aspects have been counter productive.  I know that
plenty of what had been going on emanated from emotion more than it
emanated from sound reasoning, and that's where the task is; what is the
task of the leader but to plan things and study things clearly and
logically and adopt policies based on the realties of the situations?

BAROUD: Why does the PA continue to call on the US to play a greater
role in the negotiations, considering the fact that Palestinians are
convinced the US is very biased toward Israel?

Dr.  ABDEL-SHAFI: I acknowledge that the US has the most powerful say in
what's going on all over the world, but here we have a just cause, we
have to address the democratic world and we have to put the Palestinian
house into order.  The democratic world cannot respond realistically to
our demands and to the needs of the situation on the basis of justice
and fairness, unless we put our house in order.  If we organize, if we
realize Palestinian unity through a united leadership, it would be the
way to address the world.  It will reflect a new image of the
Palestinian people that the world will respect.  The way things are
going, it is difficult for the world to take us seriously.  We reflect a
very negative image and this does not cause the world to take us
seriously, so what is needed is to remedy things inside. 

BAROUD: Has the Intifada succeeded in reaching and appealing to the Arab
world?

Dr.  ABDEL-SHAFI: I think here again, if we put the Palestinian house in
order, this is a step toward democratizing Palestinian society.  I say
that a national unity leadership, that will respect legal principal,
human rights, the dispensing of public money, this is going to impress
Arab societies all over, then there will be mobilization to realize
better support by the Arab world for the Palestinians.  But the image
that we see is a negative image.  We need to present them a positive
example.  That will lead to mobilization for the better, even in the
Arab world. 

BAROUD: The American media has actively linked the attacks on New York
to the suicide bombings directed at Israel.  Do you find the link
proper?

Dr.  ABDEL-SHAFI: I don't accept this accusation that these bombs are
linked to what is going on in Palestine, not at all, perhaps it suits
the American media to say this, but it is not the case. 

I think the whole thing is reflected by the character of those that were
engaged in these terrorist actions.  What I read is that people were
commending their characters in Florida or Hamburg etc…so the questions
come; why did they do this? They didn't do it out of something inane in
them. 

Its easier for the American government and media to link this to what
has been going on in Palestine and the suicide bombings; no..  no..  no;
I think it is totally different, the US should link this to its global
policy.  I think that these acts emanate from the fact that the US has
been violating democratic ideals, there are so many UN resolutions that
have not been implemented because the US does not want to implement
them. 

For instance the UN resolution that condemns settlement activity since
1967.  The US is ignoring and not supporting the UN, rather it is
following its own objectives, and that is where the great disaffection
by the Arab world began about the policy of the US government.  A
criminal action should be condemned, but with the same voice I say that
it is necessary that the US do some soul-searching about its conduct in
the world and I say that its time to stop and think if are they doing
the right thing or not?. 

Why are they supporting Israel in its aggressions and obstructing UN
resolutions for the fair resolution of the Palestine problem.  If the US
is going to just seek the perpetrators and punish them and that's all,
then its preparing the ground for more terrorist attacks in the future. 
If they want to stop terrorism, they need to review their global
policies. 

BAROUD: If the peace process resumes, should Palestinians return to the
same negotiation style and agenda?

Dr.  ABDEL-SHAFI: I think we shouldn't go back except on definite
things, and one of the things is that Israel should agree to stop its
settlement activity, unless this is done, we should not go back.  I
think we should face the world with this position, I think that we
should make this very clear to the American sponsor and to the Israelis,
we should say we are not interested in killing Jews here or there, but
we will actually fight wherever Israel continues to establish
settlements or when they see it necessary to demolish a home or farm or
trees, then we should fight. 

BAROUD: With all honesty, has the Intifada advanced the cause of the
Palestinian people?

Dr.  ABDEL-SHAFI: It made it more known to the world at large, it sent
the message that the Palestinian people are not going to abandon their
rights, they are not going to submit to force, and that the Palestinians
are for a just solution. 

BAROUD: As Palestinians embark on the second year of their uprising,
what is your message to them?

Dr.  ABDEL-SHAFI: It is high time that we put the Palestinian house in
order, this is very important because up till now -and this has been a
Palestinian failure- that in spite of everything, the world continues
not be informed properly about the Palestinian struggle.  Our immediate
task is to organize the Intifada, to make it clear that we are waging a
legitimate defensive struggle, for our cause and self determination. 
What we want to establish is just peace in Palestine. 

*[Born in Gaza in 1919, Dr.  Abdel Shafi graduated from the Faculty of
Medicine at the American University in Beirut in 1947.  He was the head
of medical services in the Gaza Strip from 1957-1960.  Dr.  Abdel Shafi
was the spokesman of the first Palestinian Legislative Council from 1962
to 1963.  He is also a member of the Birzeit University Board of
Trustees.  In addition, he headed the Palestinian delegation to the
Washington talks.  He was elected to the Palestinian Legislative Council
in 1996, but has recently resigned his post.]


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