Return-Path: <sentto-279987-3763-1004934546-fc=all.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com> Delivered-To: fc@all.net Received: from 204.181.12.215 [204.181.12.215] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.7.4) for fc@localhost (single-drop); Sun, 04 Nov 2001 20:31:08 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 2200 invoked by uid 510); 5 Nov 2001 04:28:12 -0000 Received: from n20.groups.yahoo.com (216.115.96.70) by 204.181.12.215 with SMTP; 5 Nov 2001 04:28:12 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-279987-3763-1004934546-fc=all.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [10.1.4.55] by n20.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Nov 2001 04:27:29 -0000 X-Sender: fc@red.all.net X-Apparently-To: iwar@onelist.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 5 Nov 2001 04:29:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 12549 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2001 04:29:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m11.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Nov 2001 04:29:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO red.all.net) (65.0.156.78) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Nov 2001 04:29:05 -0000 Received: (from fc@localhost) by red.all.net (8.11.2/8.11.2) id fA54Tax02194 for iwar@onelist.com; Sun, 4 Nov 2001 20:29:36 -0800 Message-Id: <200111050429.fA54Tax02194@red.all.net> To: iwar@onelist.com (Information Warfare Mailing List) Organization: I'm not allowed to say X-Mailer: don't even ask X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL3] From: Fred Cohen <fc@all.net> X-Yahoo-Profile: fcallnet Mailing-List: list iwar@yahoogroups.com; contact iwar-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list iwar@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:iwar-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com> Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2001 20:29:36 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: iwar@yahoogroups.com Subject: [iwar] [fc:CAIR.continues.its.campaign.to.silence.American.voices] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2001 14:01:47 -0500 To: <a href="mailto:cair-net@cair.biglist.com?Subject=Re:%20(ai)%20[Fwd:%20CAIR%20continues%20its%20deception%20and%20attack%20on%20US%20Security]%2526In-Reply-To=%2526lt;3BE215AB.F5FE4A90@speconsult.com">cair-net@cair.biglist.com</a> From: CAIR <<a href="mailto:cair@cair-net.org?Subject=Re:%20(ai)%20[Fwd:%20CAIR%20continues%20its%20deception%20and%20attack%20on%20US%20Security]%2526In-Reply-To=%2526lt;3BE215AB.F5FE4A90@speconsult.com">cair@cair-net.org</a> Subject: CAIR-NET: Colorado Congressman Calls for Passenger Profiling [Analysts Note: CAIR continues its campaign to silence American voices and through omission (severe editing) presents a false view of events. The discussion as presented by CAIR:] COLORADO CONGRESSMAN CALLS FOR PASSENGER PROFILING CNN WOLF BLITZER REPORTS October 31, 2001 REP. SCOTT MCINNIS (R), COLORADO: Well, let me tell you that I'm not sure of the word ethnic profiling. But I think the word profiling -- we all use profiling. CNN uses profiling, of course, to take a look at who their viewers are out there. We use it in every activity of our life. And, for God's sake, we ought to use profiling to protect the national security of this country. I mean, not using it right now is simply a diversion to our safety. And our safety has got to come first. BLITZER: So you are saying, Congressman McInnis, if someone looks like he is an Arab or of Middle Eastern ancestry, be should singled out? MCINNIS: Well, let me tell you, if you put that in a combination with factors -- for example, these hijackers, we knew that they were all in a certain age group. We knew that they were all male. We knew that they were all Arab. We knew that they were of the Islamic faith. When you put all of those factors together, you are darn right you better pull those people aside and start asking some questions. Almost every other country in the world does do that. And, frankly, that's why Israel, for example, hasn't had a hijacking on one of their aircraft... ...MCINNIS: But you have got to agree with me that when we have people of Arab descent, for example, who buy a one-way ticket, who have no baggage that get onto an airplane, and they're traveling some distance, and they fall within a certain age range, and they belong to a certain radical part of a religion, those people ought to be pulled aside because of that profile. And that's profiling... ...MCINNIS: OK. I'm telling you that a profile utilizing a number of different elements -- just like we do before we issue an insurance policy to a teenage driver. We know that a teenager driver has a much higher likelihood of speeding, much higher likelihood of driving. And, therefore, we charge him more for insurance. Now, you may call that discrimination. You may call that what is wrong with America. I'm telling you it is what is needed in America for the national defense of this country... POLITE COMMENTS TO: Congressman Scott McInnis 320 Cannon House Office Building Washington, DC 20515 Tel: (202) 225-4761 Fax: (202) 226-0622 URL: http://www.house.gov/mcinnis/ ****************************************** The portion from "Wolf Blitzer Reports" [CNN's trancript] Joining us now to discuss ethnic profiling are James Zogby. He's the founder and president of the Arab American Institute. Also joining us is Congressman Scott McInnis, Republican of Colorado. Thanks to both of you. Congressman McInnis, you be want the government to begin ethnic profiling of passengers, for example, that go on planes. Why? REP. SCOTT MCINNIS (R), COLORADO: Well, let me tell you that I'm not sure of the word ethnic profiling. But I think the word profiling -- we all use profiling. CNN uses profiling, of course, to take a look at who their viewers are out there. We use it in every activity of our life. And, for God's sake, we ought to use profiling to protect the national security of this country. I mean, not using it right now is simply a diversion to our safety. And our safety has got to come first. BLITZER: So you are saying, Congressman McInnis, if someone looks like he is an Arab or of Middle Eastern ancestry, be should singled out? MCINNIS: Well, let me tell you, if you put that in a combination with factors -- for example, these hijackers, we knew that they were all in a certain age group. We knew that they were all male. We knew that they were all Arab. We knew that they were of the Islamic faith. When you put all of those factors together, you are darn right you better pull those people aside and start asking some questions. Almost every other country in the world does do that. And, frankly, that's why Israel, for example, hasn't had a hijacking on one of their aircraft. BLITZER: Jim Zogby, what do you say? JAMES ZOGBY, ARAB AMERICAN INSTITUTE: Congressman, that's bizarre and it's actually not very American. If you use that kind of system, what you end with, as a colleague of yours, Darrell Issa, congressman from California, a Republican Congressman, he was profiled and kept off an Air France plane for precisely that reason. (CROSSTALK) ZOGBY: We could have profiled him, but the fact is, is that the mosquitoes that buzz don't bite. It's the ones that don't buzz do. It's bad law enforcement to simply use an ethnic-based profile. You can create... (CROSSTALK) ZOGBY: Congressman, let me finish. (CROSSTALK) BLITZER: One at a time, Congressman. ZOGBY: Because I fly and you fly, and I'm as concerned with air safety as you are. But what I don't want to see are women who are covered and men who have beards and people who are of Arab descent simply singled out for that reason. It is bad law enforcement. It is against the law to do that. (CROSSTALK) ZOGBY: And if you do -- if you do use that system, you will probably let the guys who would commit crimes go and not catch them. MCINNIS: Wait a second. Take a look -- in fact, your family -- as you know, in your family, you use profiling in the polling business. We use profiling -- for example, we go in on teenage pregnancy -- we go in and profile teenage pregnancy to try and figure out how we can resolve that problem. We use profiling in marketing. We use profiling for high-risk drivers. We need to use profiling for the security of this country. What you are trying to do is be so politically correct that we are actually gun-shy (CROSSTALK) ZOGBY: ... come up with a very precise law enforcement technique that will develop a profile. MCINNIS: Well, let me ask you this. ZOGBY: Can I -- if you would let me finish, I would tell you. You can develop a profile in which ethnicity is but a factor that may be an effective form of law enforcement. MCINNIS: That is exactly what I'm saying. ZOGBY: But the way we're using it right now, it's wrong. MCINNIS: That's not what we're using it right now. ZOGBY: When you take the Republican congressman and don't let him get on plane (CROSSTALK) MCINNIS: Get off the partisan. This is not a Republican- Democrat issue, Mr. Zogby. And you know that. (CROSSTALK) MCINNIS: Wait a second. Let's go back to your initial issue. I agree with you that racial profiling should be more (CROSSTALK) ZOGBY: Listen, when the pilot comes back and says, "I'm not flying with Mohammed on the plane..." BLITZER: One at a time, Congressman, please. ZOGBY: And he says, "I'm not flying with Mohammed on the plane" and makes the guy get off the plane even though he has passed all the security clearance, he simply doesn't want a guy named Mohammed on the plane. Or when you have three people taken off and denied the right to fly because the pilot said he was uncomfortable because they were too dark, and he wasn't sure who they were, and they turn out to be Indians, but it doesn't matter. If you go that route, you end up going the route of racism. It is wrong and it simply won't work. It's bad law enforcement. (CROSSTALK) MCINNIS: That's right, but what you have presented is a very narrow focus. And on those three specific cases you just mentioned, I agree with you. ZOGBY: Well, there you go. MCINNIS: But you have got to agree with me that when we have people of Arab descent, for example, who buy a one-way ticket, who have no baggage that get onto an airplane, and they're traveling some distance, and they fall within a certain age range, and they belong to a certain radical part of a religion, those people ought to be pulled aside because of that profile. And that's profiling. ZOGBY: But the fact is, is that we didn't know they belonged to a radical part of the religion. MCINNIS: I know. But, you know, we can determine at our airports (CROSSTALK) MCINNIS: Wait a second. You asked me to let me finish. ZOGBY: Yes. I will let you finish. I will. MCINNIS: OK. I'm telling you that a profile utilizing a number of different elements -- just like we do before we issue an insurance policy to a teenage driver. We know that a teenager driver has a much higher likelihood of speeding, much higher likelihood of driving. And, therefore, we charge him more for insurance. Now, you may call that discrimination. You may call that what is wrong with America. I'm telling you it is what is needed in America for the national defense of this country. ZOGBY: If it's -- now, I would like to finish. Let me just go on for a moment. If it's ethnic based and solely ethnic based -- which is what subjective profiling has been doing over the last several years... (CROSSTALK) ZOGBY: Let me make my point, sir. MCINNIS: Well, you are misleading the public out there. ZOGBY: I am not misleading the public. MCINNIS: Yes, you are. ZOGBY: I am dealing with this issue every single day because I'm getting the victims who are calling me. And I have been dealing with this issue for 10 years. (CROSSTALK) ZOGBY: A 69-year-old Syrian woman gets her luggage strewn all over on the floor because she was singled out because she had a head scarf on. It is wrong. MCINNIS: Mr. Zogby (CROSSTALK) ZOGBY: And let me tell you something, Congressman. If you want to stop this problem, you would to what Victoria Cummock just said in the segment before this. If we have the plane secured, if the pilot's door is bolted, if we do the proper checks on luggage, if we do all the things that were recommended a decade ago to make the plane secure and the airport secure, it doesn't matter who is on the plane. Nothing can happen. (CROSSTALK) ZOGBY: In fact, if we had use the computerized -- the CAPS system, it was called -- of profiling fact, the fact that these men did buy one-way, first-class tickets with cash the day before, they should have been profiled. It had nothing do with their religion. It had nothing to do with their ethnicity or their age group. They should have been stopped. But they weren't because the system broke down. If you do the system the way it was intended to be done, without violating constitutional rights, the system will work. (CROSSTALK) ZOGBY: We haven't done it right. MCINNIS: The system you're talking about, sure, who would object to that system? It sounds like a great system. But for to you say that we have a right to look at the baggage, we have a right to look at what has gone on to the airplane, but we have no right to question the people on the airplane, you are crazy. We have got to protect the people of this country. You have taken political correctness to an extreme end of the spectrum. I'm in the middle there. And I'm saying we need it for national security. BLITZER: Congressman McInnis, Jim Zogby, unfortunately, we are all out of time. If you want to continue this debate, we can continue it tomorrow. We will talk about it later -- a good discussion. Thanks to both of you for joining us. ------------------ http://all.net/ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.2 : 2001-12-31 20:59:58 PST