[iwar] [fc:Interview.with.an.ex-hacker]

From: Fred Cohen (fc@all.net)
Date: 2002-02-05 20:50:11
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From: Fred Cohen <fc@all.net>
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Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 20:50:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [iwar] [fc:Interview.with.an.ex-hacker]
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Interview with an ex-hacker

By James Middleton, Vnunet, 2/4/02
<a href="http://www.computing.vnunet.com/News/1128889">http://www.computing.vnunet.com/News/1128889>

 According to the defacement archive at Alldas.de, the hacker group
known as the 'sm0ked crew' only terrorised websites throughout February
of last year.

But that was maybe enough for one member of the crew, Splurge, who
decided to call it quits and go straight in the security industry.

Eighteen-year-old Splurge, who withheld his real name, contacted
vnunet.com to tell us his story. What prompted him to switch from a life
of box breaking and defacing, to the somewhat more acceptable career of
a security consultant selling denial of service (DoS) filter systems?

"It's not the feds you have to worry about, it's always the other
hackers that bring you down," he said. "They love to fight each other.
They'll nark on you to the FBI just to get you off the scene."

Splurge has had one such call from an FBI agent. "He just turned up on
my doorstep. Just the standard agent type, he didn't really know
anything.

"But I'm worried because I've been falsely accused of stealing $500,000
worth of software, which I didn't do, it's some other hacker who's
pinned this on me," he said.

Splurge would not elaborate on this case, as he said it could still go
to court.

He said that the FBI has honeypots set up all over the internet, just to
catch hackers. "I got tricked through five boxes," he said with a touch
of humour. "That's how they caught me."

But sometimes, said Splurge, hackers do get the Hollywood treatment.
"Another hacker I know, going by the name of Darkness, broke into NASA.
Next thing, his door was being kicked down by agents waving guns all
over the place."

But apart from getting arrested, Splurge assured us that the hacking and
defacing scene is nothing like in the movies.

"Films like 'Hackers' aren't even close," he said. "I got out of the
scene because the crew was breaking down, there was too much
in-fighting, and the danger of getting arrested was becoming more and
more real."

Although Splurge didn't know any other members of the sm0ked crew except
by their screen name - "it's safer that way" - he maintains that someone
else in the hacker community set him up to get him off the scene.

"After we hacked Intel for the third time running, I had a visit from
one of their security guys who had managed to trace me back. He offered
me a job as some sort of pen tester in a startup security firm he was
going to launch, but it didn't sound too ethical so I refused.  Then he
warned me not to touch Intel any more or he'd turn me in. It was about
then I realised I wanted to get out."

The stereotypical image of hackers is pretty accurate, according to
Splurge. "It's really just a bunch of really smart kids trying to prove
themselves. I know I was," he said.

"They're not misfits, they're just trying to make their mark. Defacing
is an easy way to get on the news."

"It's almost as if they want to get caught," he added. "Obviously they
don't want to go to jail, but they want to be known for their actions."

But Splurge sounds like he's had a change of heart. "Anyone who leaves
an insecure box attached to the net deserves it. But anyone who actually
damages data should do time," he said. "We always left backups of any
sites we defaced.

"It's not hard to secure a box. An operating system is only as secure as
the admin makes it. I use Linux all the way because I think it's easier
to secure, but any operating system can be secured, even Windows.

"Filtering out IPs that shouldn't be accessing certain servers
eliminates 99 per cent of problems, and getting a decent firewall
helps," he said.

"People think defacers just use canned scripts to break sites," he
continued, "but this is not necessarily true. A scanner is just a lot of
hard work. I would go to a big site and just wade through each IP on the
block looking for vulnerabilities."

Most of the misinformation about hackers is propagated by the media,
according to Splurge.

"If the media stopped glorifying hackers, we wouldn't have this problem.
They wouldn't be trying to make front page news. And they won't stop,
either. For every one arrested, five more go free," he said.

So what does a hacker do when he's done with making the news? "I work
for a filtering firm. We stop denial of service attacks taking out
networks like with Cloud 9, Tiscali and Donhost this week. But I'd like
a better job in the security industry."

And is there honour among data thieves? Not really. "As we speak, I'm
just tracking someone who's hit one of my own personal boxes. I'm
confident I'll get him, and when I do, I'll turn him in. I've no problem
with that."

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