Subject: IW Mailing List iw/960124
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Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 23:56:08 -0800
From: (Roger D. Thrasher)
Subject: Re: [C4I-Pro] Re: IM & C4I

> (Jones, David T.)
>It has been my experience that the services tend to create specialized
>organizations about new technology in order to pigeonhole it.  That is
>why the idea of an "information corps" or "information service" bothers

I hope that doesn't happen. I guess I'm thinking more of the model of Space
Command. I don't know the history of how it started out, but it has ended
up as a unified command. As such, it provides enabling support to the
theater CINCs (as could a "cyber command") and also has some "warfighting"
capabilities (again, as could a "cyber command"). Just as we'll never fight
another war without the exploitation of space, we'll never fight another
war without the exploitation of cyberspace.
Subject: Info Corps

>From: ((shane))
>>From: (Roger D. Thrasher)
>> ...
>>So if we accept that cyberspace is a true realm of conflict, then the
>>need for an "info service" or "cyber command" falls out naturally (to
>>me) given how we have organized to fight in the other realms of
>  You're crossing your wires here, Roger.  I fully agree in the "CyberCom"
>concept -- as a joint service (a la StratCom) -- NOT as a separate service.

Definitely -- I wasn't trying to promote a separate service over a joint
command. In fact, the Stratcom or Spacecom model is probably a very good
one to follow.
From: "Schrader, John S3 54SIG Riyadh" 
Subject: Re: [C4I-Pro] Re: IM & C4I
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 96 13:11:00 PST

The only problem with a cyber-force (I hate that term already) is that
the services still control the purse strings.  At least with the Joint
Requirements Oversight Council, the CINCs are weighing in, but the
service are still tasked to train, equip, and provide forces to the
CINCs.  Until the money is cut loose, any joint C4I force is a dream. 
From: (Dan Meyer, general counsel, The Strategy Group)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 96 08:01:04 PST
Subject: Info Corps

Some empirical observations about the current debate over 'info corps'
and 'info warfare' in general.  First, let's understand that the 'net'
is only the latest in a series of 'carriage' media: rude tracks, plank
roads, toll roads, canals and railroads, and aeroplanes--ignore these as
mere transportation.  "Carriage" means just that; and all carried

All these systems, which were quite complex at their creation for those
who created them, required some initial security investment: the legion
laid the road, manned the garrison, and watched as the carts of leather
and spice rolled to and fro.  And though the Empire, for instance, only
opened the doors of Janus' temple (a sign of no war) during four years
from beginning to the sack of Rome, most of the fighting was in
expansion or defense, from the outside in--a rebellion here or there

Point is, once the net is up, its security has two components: one for
the warriors, and the other for the lawyers.  Warriors maintain, in a
passive sense, system borders.  Law, and it's insurance/investment
surrogates, insure internal integrity.  Those seeking extra rich rewards
invest over the net; and invest in bringing new assets into the web. 
Ensuring the internal integrity means just that; you allow for just
enough insecurity to match risk and reward, and then you insure the

Which means, in a very real sense, the warriors will hinder the rewards
of the new carriage system if they roam the internal security system. 
If you want a very real example, the common "check" from the bank is the
result of some 400 years of trying to secure transactions between
parties at a distance moving goods over roads between unfamiliar
communities.  A series of legal standards understood the king's garrison
couldn't keep the Gaels "without the Pale" or "over the Highland line". 
So the legal community used these standards to allocate the risk of
carriage.  The cost was spread throughout the system of British trade. 

All you warrior types (and I understand your ethos, having been there),
must understand that the price of creating a new cold, cyber war will be
to deny us the same investment opportunites created by predecessor
systems of carriage.  Carve the appropriate, narrow, niche and stay in

But keep talking on this net, you cross chat is illustrative. 
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 13:35:12 EST

Sorry to interupt this thread, but...  There was a local news story            
last night that stated a local law enforcement agency (OPP) was requesting     
Russian satellite images for an area near Toronto, Ontario on a specific       
date to see if they could identify the vehicle used to get tothe scene         
of the crime.. Excuse my naivety - are satellites capable of getting in        
this close with indexed accuracy as to date/time and location ? (If so,        
my wife may appreciate a blind on the skylight in the bathroom)...             
Or is this a method of getting the perp to give themself up thinking           
they are as good as caught once the satellite images identify his/her          
vehicle or even the crime itself ?                                             

[Moderator's Note: About 10 years ago, it was widely published that US
satellites could discern items as small as a golf ball from space.  Nova
had an interesting show on this subject.  More recently, we have heard
that US spy satellites can listen to any single conversation on the ground
(I assume this is subject to various noise constraints).]
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 18:43:54 -0500 (EST)
From: Ben 
Subject: Media Perceptions

WE've talked a lot about disinformation in order to effect a response. 
Does anyone have any hard evidence which would backup a statement that
the media is a pawn in the hands of spin doctors. 

I remember someone mentioning something about PR firms being employed by
both sides in the Balkans, but I don't remember a citation.