RE: [iwar] China suspected in port deal

From: Ozair (
Date: 2001-06-01 05:14:35

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Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 17:14:35 +0500
Subject: RE: [iwar] China suspected in port deal
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I think I can safely speak these words about IWAR-- but Fred, do not
hesitate to correct me if I am wrong--. I shall answer your questions point
by point

Q. What post am I referring to
The one that is showing up at the bottom of this mail.

Comment; delayed mail
I am sure that all posts are delivered within minutes of them being sent.

Comment; definition of IWAR and INFOSEC
For the purpose of this group we have defined the IWAR to be closely related
to the hack attacks, DOS and such events happening around the world.
Essentially, we just like to see what kind of damages are being done on the
internet (courtesy Fred and his "news" mails, Thanks Fred). In the past I
tried to broaden the perspective to age old art of "Deception and deceit"
however little interest was shown. If you do happen to read all the previous
mails of this group at the following link (you shall have to register
yourself if you are not already a member of (and related messages)
you shall find some discussion on "what is Information Warfare". I hope this
shall help you to understand as to why I said that this particular mail
(scroll down to see the news item) is not part of the "IWAR" as we call it.

Comment; "disinformation"
I am not sure I understand your question, because some parts of your e-mail
were missing.

Wish: Predictability
Predictability = stability = stagnation = boredom
however there is a corollary as well
Change = excitement = chaos = worries

I however am in favor of moderation in change, for it allows one to catch
up, enjoy life and yet adapt to the changing environment (sphere of

Suggestion: Agreement of Info Warfare
I am not sure all countries can
1. agree on what Info war is
2. take common offensive strategies
for the sole reason
One man's bacon is another man's poison. Excuse the use of a cliché but it
serves the purpose

There shall always be enemies for anyone to know the meaning of friend,
always shall be bad for us to appreciate good (or vice versa).


-----Original Message-----
From: c.b r []
Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 4:15 PM
Subject: RE: [iwar] China suspected in port deal

hi ozair: Can you tell me which post you  are refering
to?  I have had terrible networl problemsss so I have
sent o  I have written a few-one that may not have
gone online as of yet.  The grand question still is
what is INFOSEC, or IWAR  and in America there is
still matters of great consternation and terriffic
disagrement. Even sub agencies within the defense
infrastructure cannot agree on a definition, let alone
how to fight it.
It appears that you were speaking of plain and simple
cyber "disinformatzia"- the oldest russian trick in
the book- misdirection of your adversary. Please let
me know if I have misunderstod. If you add these
elements together, a yet to be defined, new and
pernicious warfare is in the wind. It almost makes
me long for the days of plain old cold war.
Predicitaability was nice.

The first order of business for all nations is to
agree on what INFOWARFARE is and then put into action
a very basic offensivre stratigies.

Elizabeth r.

"fastflyer28@yahoo,com-new computer inbound soon
should improve my net ability.
--- Ozair <> wrote:
> Good news but I do not understand the relevance to
> Information Warfare.
> Regards,
> Ozair
> -----Original Message-----
> From: 7Pillars Partners / Cognitive Toolwerks
> []
> Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 9:36 PM
> To:
> Subject: [iwar] China suspected in port deal
> China suspected in port deal
> By David R. Sands
> China has clinched a deal to develop a major
> deep-sea commercial
> port in western Pakistan, giving Beijing a potential
> staging ground to
> exert influence along some of the worlds busiest
> shipping lanes
> flowing into and out of the Persian Gulf.
> The long-discussed project to create a major
> shipping station in
> the Pakistani coastal town of Gwadar opens a new
> front in the
> simmering rivalry between India and Pakistan and is
> the latest move by
> Beijing to project power throughout South Asia
> through a greatly
> expanded naval presence.
> Islamabad and Beijing have both denied Pakistani
> press reports
> that a secret understanding has been reached to
> allow Chinese naval
> vessels to dock at the port, which is expected to be
> completed in
> about six years. But both sides have talked openly
> of increasing
> "economic strategic ties" and the heavy Chinese
> involvement in the $1
> billion deal is a prime example.
> "Beijing has a history of piggybacking military
> cooperation onto
> commercial ventures," said Richard Fisher, an Asian
> specialist at the
> Jamestown Foundation. "From what we know now, this
> is a commercial
> deal, but it can easily set the stage for military
> cooperation in the
> future."
> China, which lacks a blue water port in the region,
> is also
> continuing its extensive aid to improve Pakistans
> road networks.
> Indian military analysts fear that the combination
> of the vastly
> improved Gwadar site and reliable overland links
> could give China a
> well-equipped staging ground on Indias western
> flank.
> Chinas role at Gwadar echoes similar concerns voiced
> when a Hong
> Kong firm with close ties to Chinas communist
> leadership won the
> leases to two ports near both ends of the Panama
> Canal in 1997.
> Clinton and Bush administration officials have said
> they have seen no
> interference by China in the operation of the canal,
> but a U.S.
> intelligence report in October 1999 called the
> leases "a potential
> threat" to U.S. interests.
> The Gwadar site also heightens the intense jockeying
> already
> under way among India, China and Pakistan for
> influence in the region.
> Pakistan staged naval exercises with Bangladesh in
> the Bay of
> Bengal on Indias east coast last month, followed
> almost immediately
> by a precedent-setting port call by three Pakistani
> naval vessels to
> the secretive military regime in Burma.
> The Texas-based private intelligence service
> Stratfor recently
> noted that Islamabad "is looking toward naval
> cooperation with Indias
> eastern neighbors to gain something it has not had
> since East Pakistan
> became Bangladesh -- the ability to flank India."
> A Pakistan Ministry of Defense source said of
> Gwadar: "The
> decision is a landmark as a tactical deterrent to
> the mighty Indian
> naval establishment in the Arabian Sea and the
> Indian Ocean."
> New Delhi has begun its own "Look to the East"
> campaign,
> cultivating better ties with Vietnam and Burma,
> while seeking its own
> flanking maneuver against Pakistan with improved
> relations with Iran
> and Israel.
> The United States has also made a pronounced shift
> toward India,
> even as Pakistans military and commercial ties to
> China have
> strengthened.
> The Washington Times in February reported that a CIA
> analysis
> has concluded Beijing continues to send
> "substantial" assistance to
> Pakistan for its ballistic missile program, and U.S.
> experts say they
> cannot rule out Chinese aid for Pakistans nuclear
> missile program as
> well.
> China has clashed repeatedly with the United States
> over Taiwan
> and with Southeast Asian nations over territorial
> claims in the South
> China Sea.
> In addition, Beijing has recently been courting
> dissident
> elements in Indonesia and island governments
> throughout the South
> Pacific, a direct challenge to the long-standing
> U.S. and Australian
> naval presence in the area.
> The Gwadar deal was formally announced during an
> extremely
> cordial four-day visit earlier this month by Chinese
> Prime Minister
> Zhu Rongji to Pakistan, a visit that produced a
> number of bilateral
> deals to increase cooperation in trade, rail
> transport and tourism.
> Pakistani Chief Executive Gen. Pervez Musharraf, who
> seized power
> in an October 1999 coup condemned by the United
> States, said: "I am
> confident that [the Zhu visit] will send out a
> strong signal to
> everyone of the continuing strength and durability
> of the multifaceted
> relationship between Pakistan and China."
> Just days after Mr. Zhu left, two Chinese naval
> vessels were
> received with high honors in Karachi, Pakistan, to
> celebrate 50 years
> of friendly relations between the two nations. Rear
> Adm. Zhang Yan,
> deputy commander of the North Sea China Fleet, met
> with top officers
> of the Pakistan navy and attended a dinner at the
> Pakistan Maritime
> Museum.
> A backwater fishing village with an airport but
> primitive road
> connections, Gwadar barely rates a mention in
> Pakistani tour guides.
> Plans to build a deep-sea port in the excellent and
> well-guarded
> harbor have foundered a number of times, most
> recently when an accord
> between Pakistan and Singapore announced in 1995
> fell through.
> According to Pakistani press reports and the
> official Chinese
> Xinhua news agency, the Gwadar "megaproject"
> includes a deep-sea port
> and land connections to Karachi to the east and
> Ashgabat, the capital
> of Turkmenistan, to the northwest.
> In addition, a new dam will be built to ensure
> adequate water
> supplies to support an increased population and
> industrial activity.
> Pakistani military planners have long recognized the
> commercial
> and military significance of the site, which is near
> the mouth of the
> Gulf of Oman about 50 miles from Pakistans border
> with Iran. The port
> of Karachi currently handles about 98 percent of the
> countrys
> shipping and Pakistani military planners were
> stunned by the ease with
> which Indian forces bottled up the Pakistan navy in
> Karachi during a
> 1999 standoff over Kashmir.
> Bhashyam Kasturi, writing in the September 1999
> issue of the
> journal Strategic Affairs, noted that the commercial
> and military
> development of Gwadar would give the Pakistan navy
> the "capability to
=== message truncated ===

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