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From: "Leo, Ross" <Ross.Leo@csoconline.com>
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Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 17:40:52 -0500
Reply-To: iwar@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [iwar] Chinese IW-one more thought
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America has never understood nor correctly dealt with the Oriental
mentality, which incidentally includes
the Russians. Our failure to do so has resulted in repeated and expensive
lessons. When will we learn?
If the Presidents and some Cabinet members we have had in recent years are
any indication, maybe never.
And the lessons will only get more expensive as time and events progress...
-----Original Message-----
From: e.r. [ mailto:fastflyer28@yahoo.com <mailto:fastflyer28@yahoo.com> ]
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 17:28
To: iwar@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [iwar] Chinese IW-one more thought
6 American Presidents have worked with the Chinese and they have all
been "played" with ease. If you approch any problem claiming to be
the largest 3rd world country on the planet, you keep yourself below
the radar screen. You claim to be non-threatening and you kick butt on
trade, defennse and many other issues. If you act defenseless,but are
slick predators, you can become the Bad Boy Nation in Eurasia.
Exporting weapons does help. The US just looks at them as
non-threatening, but what fools we are. They may only have a military
that can act regionally, but in the diplomatic world, threats about
Taiwan runs like good champaign-smoothly. When will we learn?
\\
\
--- "Leo, Ross" <Ross.Leo@csoconline.com> wrote:\
> It would appear that, once again, we have invited trouble in by the
> front
> door.
> The only saving grace is that we taught them everything they know,
> even if
> they
> are using in unintended or undesirable ways against us. Combating
> this
> will
> major paradigm shift to mount a defense ("knowing what your enemy
> knows and
> knowing his tactics"). What are the chances?
>
> AOL is good software? Unbelievable! This is most disheartening.
>
> Ross Leo
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: e.r. [ mailto:fastflyer28@yahoo.com <mailto:fastflyer28@yahoo.com> ]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 08:54
> To: iwar@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [iwar] Chinese IW
>
>
> Since we normalized relations with the PRC at any given time, we have
> had over 30,000 "students in this country. Guess what the majority
> of
> them majored in? Hard sciences, computer sci-nuke physics and aero
> engineering. America has trained some of China's best scientists and
> engineers
>
> And for the question asked on the 21 Club, Richard Clarke may not
> have
> been superman were cyber-terrorism is involved, but on 21 Club Boards
> members, one of the is who I know thinks AOL is the finest "software"
> in the world. When I aksed him about this problem, he think if we
> hire
> out AOL to deal with cyber-terrorism that should do the trick and he
> works for the SecDEF-that is utterly sad.
>
>
>
>
>
> --- "Leo, Ross" <Ross.Leo@csoconline.com> wrote:
> > Frankly, I have never wondered where the Chinese (or anyone else we
> > consider
> > a "bad guy") get their technology, virus or otherwise. In 1998,
> the
> > firm I
> > worked for (global trader of various commodities) kept getting a
> > virus
> > through on-line documents from a Chinese trading partner. After
> > several
> > occurrences, I phoned the partner to tell them to check out their
> > systems
> > and clean them. They apologized profusely for the inconvenience -
> > they
> > discovered that the licenses to their Norton AV and their McAfee
> had
> > expired, and the *.DAT updates were no longer being added! A
> little
> > further
> > questioning (under the guise of trying to help them figure out the
> > problem)
> > revealed that the products had been acquired on a trip to Singapore
> > since
> > they could not be purchased (then) in the PRC. The products were
> > however in
> > their most current international form at the time they were
> acquired
> > (by
> > whatever means).
> >
> > Folks may like to think that these potentially hostile parties have
> > stolen
> > all the technology they currently possess. This may be true to
> some
> > extent,
> > but what is more often the case is they simply buy it like everyone
> > else.
> > They may pirate it, copy it, reverse engineer it, etc, after they
> > obtain a
> > few legit copies, but that is no more than goes on in the US daily.
>
> > This is
> > just another business case of "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em."
> > Only this
> > time its "if you can't keep 'em from stealing it, offer to sell it
> > to them
> > before they steal it anyway".
> >
> > IMHO: The fact that the companies that do this facilitate
> > potentially
> > hostile parties ultimately learning how to compromise the systems
> we
> > are
> > trying to protect is of no particular or apparent consequence to
> > them, not
> > realizing that they themselves become as big a target as our labs
> and
> > DoD
> > might be. When I bring this to their attention, the salesmen
> > magnanimously
> > suggest I look at it as "job security" for security types (We are a
> > "type"
> > now"?).
> >
> > The difference today versus during the Cold War is now it is about
> > dollars,
> > not dogma (no great surprise).
> >
> > Ross Leo
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Fred Cohen [ mailto:fc@all.net <mailto:fc@all.net> <
mailto:fc@all.net <mailto:fc@all.net> > ]
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 15:47
> > To: iwar@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [iwar] Chinese IW
> >
> >
> > Per the message sent by JunkMail Rosenberger:
> >
> > > Do you wonder where China gets all its virus technology? Wonder
> no
> > more!
> > > They obtain it directly from U.S. antivirus firms. Ironically,
> > those same
> > > U.S. antivirus firms *refuse* to supply Washington with virus
> > technology
> > --
> > > because they don't trust the feds. Go figure. Read
> > > http://Vmyths.com/resource.cfm?id=49
<http://Vmyths.com/resource.cfm?id=49>
> > < http://Vmyths.com/resource.cfm?id=49
<http://Vmyths.com/resource.cfm?id=49&page=1> &page=1> &page=1 for details.
> >
> > > Rob
> >
> > Ah yes - the famous provision of details to the Chinese while
> keeping
> > the US in the dark. Money is the difference - of course. Business
> > is
> > more powerful than government. Ever see "Rollerball"?
> >
> > FC
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
>
>
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