Return-Path: <sentto-279987-2162-1001111271-fc=all.net@returns.onelist.com> Delivered-To: fc@all.net Received: from 204.181.12.215 by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.1.0) for fc@localhost (single-drop); Fri, 21 Sep 2001 15:29:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 29674 invoked by uid 510); 21 Sep 2001 22:28:47 -0000 Received: from n20.groups.yahoo.com (216.115.96.70) by 204.181.12.215 with SMTP; 21 Sep 2001 22:28:47 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-279987-2162-1001111271-fc=all.net@returns.onelist.com Received: from [10.1.1.220] by n20.onelist.org with NNFMP; 21 Sep 2001 22:28:24 -0000 X-Sender: azb@llnl.gov X-Apparently-To: iwar@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_2); 21 Sep 2001 22:27:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 65931 invoked from network); 21 Sep 2001 22:27:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by 10.1.1.220 with QMQP; 21 Sep 2001 22:27:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp-1.llnl.gov) (128.115.250.81) by mta1 with SMTP; 21 Sep 2001 22:28:22 -0000 Received: from poptop.llnl.gov (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp-1.llnl.gov (8.9.3/8.9.3/LLNL-gateway-1.0) with ESMTP id PAA20715 for <iwar@yahoogroups.com>; Fri, 21 Sep 2001 15:28:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from catalyst.llnl.gov (catalyst.llnl.gov [128.115.222.68]) by poptop.llnl.gov (8.8.8/LLNL-3.0.2/pop.llnl.gov-5.1) with ESMTP id PAA06295 for <iwar@yahoogroups.com>; Fri, 21 Sep 2001 15:28:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010921150702.00b64bc0@poptop.llnl.gov> X-Sender: e048786@poptop.llnl.gov X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 To: iwar@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <72222DC86846D411ABD300A0C9EB08A156FF1B@csoc-mail-box.csoco nline.com> From: Tony Bartoletti <azb@llnl.gov> Mailing-List: list iwar@yahoogroups.com; contact iwar-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list iwar@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:iwar-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com> Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 15:29:27 -0700 Reply-To: iwar@yahoogroups.com Subject: [iwar] A Hard Problem Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I would like to expand on the problem Fred poses. Let us assume that, although some violation of civil rights in the US and (for instance) Europe may occur, that these will be dealt with and rectified eventually by the strong democratic institutions that are in place. (And let us hope that I am not guilty of wishful thinking.) At the other extreme, we understand how (again, for instance) Pakistan will be in a very difficult position to assist in "rooting out terrorists" when its ruling regime sees its very existence threatened from internal forces. Granted, this is a bed of their own making, to some degree, and there will not be much western sympathy for that situation. We do not tend to worry much about whether Pakistan will respect the civil liberties of its citizens in its assistance to our anti-terror campaign. What concerns me are the ... "middle countries". I am not sure who these are specifically (Malasia, Phillipines, etc). In years past, we might be discussing Marcos in the Phillipines, or other self-declared "Presidents for life" of institutions that wrap the term "democratic republic" about themselves as if it has meaning to them. What will/should be the US response to regimes that might interpret themselves as having a free hand to engage in the mass murder of their political challengers, under the guise of "assisting the US-led coalition in rooting out terrorism." The very last thing the west needs right now is to be seen as giving a moral "carte blanc" to "western-leaning" totalitarian regimes. Thoughts? >[Original] Subject: [iwar] Bus speech and some comments > > >Bush's speech was, no doubt, the finest of his career, but underlying >his comments were some issues I think are worth serious consideration. > >As many of you already know there were anti-war demonstrations by >students throughout the US yesterday. They fear the draft, of going to >war without a well defined enemy, and of the potential for government to >assume too much power over peoples' lives. > >Bush asked for, among other things, lots of money, a poorly defined >mission, and the right to not EVER tell our citizens what is actually >being done. He also asked for expanded intelligence powers and >lessenning of civil rights. > >We must watch such things very closely in my view. > >FC Tony Bartoletti 925-422-3881 <azb@llnl.gov> Information Operations, Warfare and Assurance Center Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory Livermore, CA 94551-9900 ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Get your FREE VeriSign guide to security solutions for your web site: encrypting transactions, securing intranets, and more! http://us.click.yahoo.com/XrFcOC/m5_CAA/yigFAA/kgFolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> ------------------ http://all.net/ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.2 : 2001-09-29 21:08:46 PDT