Return-Path: <sentto-279987-2434-1001603893-fc=all.net@returns.onelist.com> Delivered-To: fc@all.net Received: from 204.181.12.215 by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.1.0) for fc@localhost (single-drop); Thu, 27 Sep 2001 08:20:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 3049 invoked by uid 510); 27 Sep 2001 15:19:24 -0000 Received: from n18.groups.yahoo.com (216.115.96.68) by 204.181.12.215 with SMTP; 27 Sep 2001 15:19:24 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-279987-2434-1001603893-fc=all.net@returns.onelist.com Received: from [10.1.1.223] by mr.egroups.com with NNFMP; 27 Sep 2001 15:19:07 -0000 X-Sender: fc@big.all.net X-Apparently-To: iwar@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 27 Sep 2001 15:18:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 46241 invoked from network); 27 Sep 2001 15:18:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by 10.1.1.223 with QMQP; 27 Sep 2001 15:18:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO big.all.net) (65.0.156.78) by mta2 with SMTP; 27 Sep 2001 15:19:06 -0000 Received: (from fc@localhost) by big.all.net (8.9.3/8.7.3) id IAA14081 for iwar@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 27 Sep 2001 08:19:02 -0700 Message-Id: <200109271519.IAA14081@big.all.net> To: iwar@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20010927150837.43142.qmail@web14505.mail.yahoo.com> from "e.r." at Sep 27, 2001 08:08:37 AM Organization: I'm not allowed to say X-Mailer: don't even ask X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL1] From: Fred Cohen <fc@all.net> Mailing-List: list iwar@yahoogroups.com; contact iwar-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list iwar@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:iwar-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com> Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 08:19:02 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: iwar@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [iwar] Comments on the Dartmouth Security Study Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Per the message sent by e.r.: > suspect actions of kids have cost this cost a great deal of money. > Nothing is a joke any longer. I think that the question is how to use our finite resources wisely and what we should indicate as the most important things to tell top decision makers. > --- "B.K. DeLong" <bkdelong@pobox.com> wrote: > > At 07:02 AM 09/27/2001 -0700, you wrote: > > > > 2. Report of suspicious activity to law enforcement immediately> > to > > > > facilitate the warning and investigative processes (Page 19) > > > > > >As in (1) above, this is likely to further overburden law enforcement > > >and create an inability to differentiate or respond to the most > > >important events. > > > > Agreed and how do you quantify what should really be reported to law > > enforcement? Even prior to said terrorist events there is an incredible > > amount of "suspicious activity", much of which caused by kids and > > ex-employees of companies within the US. I think that the key here is for LE to indicate what they believe to be important and to have industry provide it. Unfortunately, LE won't tell anyone what they think is important or provide any feedback - which is one of the reasons they don't get the information that would be most helpful to them. They (as well asl most in the government sector) tend to remain in the world of central and hierarchical systems and fail to realize that in a distributed environment such as the Internet, you need distributed and cooperative action and control. > > I must say, scanning through this report I am QUITE disappointed with all > > the "events" pointed out from Israel/Palestine to US - Chinese plane > > incident to Kashmir to Yugoslavia. All of which were perpetrated by script > > kiddies in their respective countries. There might have been a few > > incidents in the Israel/Palestine conflict that may have been specifically > > targeted but the rest of this is just bullshit kidiot activity. > > > > If Vatis REALLY wanted to put the fear of god in people he'd mention in > > 1994 when some idiot who thought it might be funny to shut off a rival > > hacker's power hacked into some hydroelectric dam and had access to the > > floodgates. Or perhaps a security system of an airport in Florida that had > > an open dialup without password protection. What about the REAL > > infrastructure issues like power, water, etc? Why aren't we hearing real > > stories about that? Besides the California Power grid being stumbled upon? > > Or the age-old story of the kid who got into the ATC system of a Worcester > > airport? I think that the problem was and remains that things that the rest of us know are still classified by the government. I looked at a classified threat assessment for a major DoD command some time back and found that it was ludicrously poor to the point of being practically useless. Every one of the small number of identified incidents was in the press within a week of its occurence and yet the report has them classfied for 10 years. Vatis was privy to the classified information when in government and thus it would be a violation of law for him to include it, even though it is in the press. --This communication is confidential to the parties it is intended to serve-- Fred Cohen Fred Cohen & Associates.........tel/fax:925-454-0171 fc@all.net The University of New Haven.....http://www.unhca.com/ http://all.net/ Sandia National Laboratories....tel:925-294-2087 ------------------------ Yahoo! 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This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.2 : 2001-09-29 21:08:50 PDT