Return-Path: <sentto-279987-2564-1001972912-fc=all.net@returns.onelist.com> Delivered-To: fc@all.net Received: from 204.181.12.215 by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.1.0) for fc@localhost (single-drop); Mon, 01 Oct 2001 14:50:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 4875 invoked by uid 510); 1 Oct 2001 21:48:41 -0000 Received: from n26.groups.yahoo.com (216.115.96.76) by 204.181.12.215 with SMTP; 1 Oct 2001 21:48:41 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-279987-2564-1001972912-fc=all.net@returns.onelist.com Received: from [10.1.1.222] by fg.egroups.com with NNFMP; 01 Oct 2001 21:48:32 -0000 X-Sender: azb@llnl.gov X-Apparently-To: iwar@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 1 Oct 2001 21:48:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 48321 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2001 21:48:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by 10.1.1.222 with QMQP; 1 Oct 2001 21:48:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp-2.llnl.gov) (128.115.250.82) by mta2 with SMTP; 1 Oct 2001 21:48:31 -0000 Received: from poptop.llnl.gov (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp-2.llnl.gov (8.9.3/8.9.3/LLNL-gateway-1.0) with ESMTP id OAA11208; Mon, 1 Oct 2001 14:48:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from catalyst.llnl.gov (catalyst.llnl.gov [128.115.222.68]) by poptop.llnl.gov (8.8.8/LLNL-3.0.2/pop.llnl.gov-5.1) with ESMTP id OAA14607; Mon, 1 Oct 2001 14:48:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20011001142631.00b2d120@poptop.llnl.gov> X-Sender: e048786@poptop.llnl.gov X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 To: iwar@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <200109282316.QAA17664@big.all.net> From: Tony Bartoletti <azb@llnl.gov> Mailing-List: list iwar@yahoogroups.com; contact iwar-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list iwar@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:iwar-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com> Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2001 14:50:21 -0700 Reply-To: iwar@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [iwar] [fc:Battling.Terrorism:.Trading.Digital.Privacy.for.Nothing?] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit At 04:16 PM 9/28/01 -0700, you wrote: >Battling Terrorism: Trading Digital Privacy for Nothing? Indeed. Those who would acquiesce to the sacrifice of civil liberties, in the cause of fighting terrorism, or in the name of patriotism, need some real education. Dedicated, professional terrorists are unlikely to be caught in such webs. They will adapt faster than our legislation or technological means to circumvent communications secrecy. Those who say "anyone opposing expanded surveillance legislation, such as the monitoring of email, must have something to hide" are in part correct. But having something to hide is often for the good. Ignore, for the moment, historical abuses of power from high up. We know that local law enforcement, although largely made of law-abiding and good people, have their share of bad apples as well. Suppose you are the victim of abusive treatment. You try to work through the usual channels, but to no avail. You cannot afford a private investigator, so you begin to "network" with others who have suffered similar abuse, to try to gather enough evidence to make a strong case. But now, your local officials, already advised of your "complaints", begin to surreptitiously monitor your "traffic", discover the depth of your evidence, and your plans to "meet somewhere". Along the way, you are pulled over. Was I speeding? Another officer bends down to find a small baggie of white powder on the floorboard of your car. Meanwhile, other "colleagues" have entered your computer, either physically or remotely (we need those backdoors; you don't want terrorists to be able to hide, do you?) and systematically erase or modify the evidence you have garnered against them. Need I continue? There is SO MUCH MORE that the law enforcement community could do, given much better funding, WITHIN the current framework of laws and regulations, that it is folly to use the current crisis to "suspend" constitutional protections, as if it would be a temporary measure (lasting only as long as the "war on terrorism"... ... ...) or even of significant effect. Such a fundamental shift in the balance of liberties and security may seem "reasonable" in the short term, but the long term effect will be to create a society that has a greater fear of its local law enforcement than of foreign threats. ____tony____ Tony Bartoletti 925-422-3881 <azb@llnl.gov> Information Operations, Warfare and Assurance Center Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory Livermore, CA 94551-9900 ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Pinpoint the right security solution for your company- Learn how to add 128- bit encryption and to authenticate your web site with VeriSign's FREE guide! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yQix2C/33_CAA/yigFAA/kgFolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> ------------------ http://all.net/ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.2 : 2001-12-31 20:59:53 PST