Return-Path: <sentto-279987-3158-1003518130-fc=all.net@returns.onelist.com> Delivered-To: fc@all.net Received: from 204.181.12.215 [204.181.12.215] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.7.4) for fc@localhost (single-drop); Fri, 19 Oct 2001 13:46:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 14705 invoked by uid 510); 19 Oct 2001 19:01:47 -0000 Received: from n5.groups.yahoo.com (216.115.96.55) by 204.181.12.215 with SMTP; 19 Oct 2001 19:01:47 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-279987-3158-1003518130-fc=all.net@returns.onelist.com Received: from [10.1.1.224] by n5.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Oct 2001 19:02:10 -0000 X-Sender: azb@llnl.gov X-Apparently-To: iwar@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 19 Oct 2001 19:02:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 74680 invoked from network); 19 Oct 2001 19:02:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by 10.1.1.224 with QMQP; 19 Oct 2001 19:02:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp-2.llnl.gov) (128.115.250.82) by mta1 with SMTP; 19 Oct 2001 19:02:09 -0000 Received: from poptop.llnl.gov (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp-2.llnl.gov (8.9.3/8.9.3/LLNL-gateway-1.0) with ESMTP id MAA15137 for <iwar@yahoogroups.com>; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 12:02:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from catalyst.llnl.gov (catalyst.llnl.gov [128.115.222.68]) by poptop.llnl.gov (8.8.8/LLNL-3.0.2/pop.llnl.gov-5.1) with ESMTP id MAA21673 for <iwar@yahoogroups.com>; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 12:02:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20011019114359.00c1b370@poptop.llnl.gov> X-Sender: e048786@poptop.llnl.gov X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 To: iwar@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <9qmir7+6re9@eGroups.com> From: Tony Bartoletti <azb@llnl.gov> Mailing-List: list iwar@yahoogroups.com; contact iwar-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list iwar@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:iwar-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com> Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 12:04:56 -0700 Reply-To: iwar@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [iwar] The role of self-attribution Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think this is a fascinating (and definitely iwar) topic. I would pose the question such: What are the implications and ramifications, given a clear act of terrorism, of a. claiming responsibility b. denying responsibility c. accusing others d. remaining silent Especially interesting is the possible case of one party committing an act with the purpose of making another party appear to be the perpetrator. In such a case, one might expect the real "perp" to employ (c) or (d) at the outset, but things could be yet further twisted. Such acts may be undertaken by either sympathetic or antithetic parties. I agree that ambiguity can serve to heighten the fear-factor, as it engenders an inability to focus upon a solution. _____tony____ At 12:44 PM 10/18/01 +0000, ellisd wrote: >Why didn't the organization behind the 9/11 attack take credit? > >Why hasn't the organization behind the ongoing anthrax saga taken credit? > >Is there more information strength in ambiguity? > >The pros (as I see them) to not taking credit are: >-Our inference mechanisms may be incorrect leading to misdirection >-Psychological effects of uncertainty > -subjects insite more fear within themselves than actors could >-in a forest-like organization (as opposed to a tree-like organization), >it is more difficult to attribute credit when there maybe multiple forces >involved, not taking credit avoids rifts > >The cons: >-Other psychological effects >-Being deemed a coward and summarily dismissed > >Undetermined (by myself): >-Which has a greater influence to insight would-be followers? If you have >no followers but want to take advantage of somebody else's followers, then >obviously not taking credit is a good thing. This, I suppose goes along >with the misdirection pro. > >I am sure there are better reasons (pros and cons) and I just haven't been >enlightened yet. Regardless, the lack of self-attribution in the recent >events has really bothered me. It seems more "manly" for lack of a better >word (forgive me here, e.r.) to take credit, but so far, I can so no real >reason to take credit when attribution can be avoided. > >If you feel that I am way off target in context of the recent attacks, >then please generalize my comments. I am aware of a great deal of >evidence which provides some degree of attribution, but that attribution >is far from complete. Tony Bartoletti 925-422-3881 <azb@llnl.gov> Information Operations, Warfare and Assurance Center Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory Livermore, CA 94551-9900 ------------------------ Yahoo! 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This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.2 : 2001-12-31 20:59:56 PST