Return-Path: <sentto-279987-3786-1005008769-fc=all.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com> Delivered-To: fc@all.net Received: from 204.181.12.215 [204.181.12.215] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.7.4) for fc@localhost (single-drop); Mon, 05 Nov 2001 17:08:07 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 26358 invoked by uid 510); 6 Nov 2001 01:05:14 -0000 Received: from n3.groups.yahoo.com (216.115.96.53) by 204.181.12.215 with SMTP; 6 Nov 2001 01:05:14 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-279987-3786-1005008769-fc=all.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [10.1.4.54] by n3.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Nov 2001 01:06:09 -0000 X-Sender: azb@llnl.gov X-Apparently-To: iwar@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 6 Nov 2001 01:06:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 91965 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2001 01:06:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m10.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Nov 2001 01:06:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp-1.llnl.gov) (128.115.250.81) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Nov 2001 01:06:08 -0000 Received: from poptop.llnl.gov (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp-1.llnl.gov (8.9.3/8.9.3/LLNL-gateway-1.0) with ESMTP id RAA19713 for <iwar@yahoogroups.com>; Mon, 5 Nov 2001 17:06:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from catalyst.llnl.gov (catalyst.llnl.gov [128.115.222.68]) by poptop.llnl.gov (8.8.8/LLNL-3.0.2/pop.llnl.gov-5.1) with ESMTP id RAA17542 for <iwar@yahoogroups.com>; Mon, 5 Nov 2001 17:06:07 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20011105165147.00cb5d70@poptop.llnl.gov> X-Sender: e048786@poptop.llnl.gov X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 To: iwar@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <200111050448.fA54m1x02726@red.all.net> From: Tony Bartoletti <azb@llnl.gov> Mailing-List: list iwar@yahoogroups.com; contact iwar-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list iwar@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:iwar-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com> Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2001 17:08:27 -0700 Reply-To: iwar@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [iwar] [fc:Spy.agency.destroys.data,.angering.others.in.probe] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit At 08:48 PM 11/4/01 -0800, you wrote: >[FC - This one is just beyond comprehension...] > >INTELLIGENCE > >Spy agency destroys data, angering others in probe > >By John Donnelly, Globe Staff, 10/27/2001 > >ASHINGTON - Analysts at the super-secret National Security Agency, acting on >advice from the organization's lawyers, have been destroying data collected >on Americans or US companies since the Sept. 11 attacks - angering other >intelligence agencies seeking leads in the antiterrorist probe, according to >two people with close intelligence ties. This is a hard one. On the one hand, we do not want to toss out the Fourth Amendment, as it is a cornerstone of the American System of Justice. One the other hand, it seems quite reasonable that when intelligence gathered on a foreign national happens to implicate a US citizen in the activities, such information should be able to be retained, with restrictions upon its use against that US citizen in a legal proceeding (otherwise, we might reasonably "surveil" a great many US citizens indirectly, simply by tapping arbitrary foreign nationals.) A system that might replace each reference to a US citizen with a "unique code", allowing cross reference to investigate networks of operations, yet protecting the identity of the citizen seems plausible in the ideal. Making it work would not be trivial. What happens when citizen information, shared with domestic law enforcement (FBI), reveals leads to "ordinary criminality" not directly related to the activity justifying the foreigner surveillance? How does one demonstrate that "fishing expeditions" are not undertaken, based upon such leads? ____tony____ P.S. "ASHINGTON" ? Odd spot for a copy-error. Tony Bartoletti 925-422-3881 <azb@llnl.gov> Information Operations, Warfare and Assurance Center Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory Livermore, CA 94551-9900 ------------------ http://all.net/ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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